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The Ravenna Report
Jun 1, 2026
Before Ashley St. Clair Left MAGA, She Learned What Happens to Women Who Speak Up
Before Ashley St. Clair Left MAGA, She Learned What Happens to Women Who Speak Up
00:00
39:15
Transcript
0:00
I do not trust Ashley St. Clair Ashley St. Clair is not saying anything of substance. I refuse to fall for the Ashley St. Clair- Ashley St.
0:06
Clair wasn't lying when she said there were groups And you told them everything that they wanted to hear All of the comments are mostly white women- She was groomed. Face it... praising her existence. Aging to you now.
0:14
But she wasn't lying. Ashley St. Clair wasn't lying The richest man in the world And you knew that it was a lie. You think that she flipped on MAGA?
0:19
No, she just mad at her big daddy 'cause he don't wanna pay her nothing. She didn't do this because she had a change of heart. She did it because she didn't get picked, and I need y'all to understand that.
0:25
He won't do that to me and my child. So tell me how you're doing. You've kind of recently, uh, returned.
0:36
I've been really heartened by, like, the people who have reached out and said that they're still in it, and they're feeling more comfortable to leave or speak up, and I hope that it makes some sort of difference there.
0:49
And having people reach out from within the communities that I contributed harmful rhetoric to, who said, like, "You know, I never thought there was hope, and this has helped me a lot," like, that's, that's meant a lot.
1:01
Yeah. To, like, have some positive impact after so much negative impact, it feels good. Let's go back a little bit. Who was Ashley St. Clair before politics? I didn't know.
1:13
I think before politics, I was very interested in philosophy and video games. Like, I was just... I had brothers, a lot of brothers. I had one older sister. But it was, I just liked
1:28
talking to real people more, and reading, and discussing things, and having this, like, more whimsical sense of self, and then it just...
1:39
I had not exactly the easiest time growing up, and then going to college and being super insecure.
1:46
And there were experiences that I had in college, too, that, like, I haven't fully discussed, but that really contributed to that insecurity and, like, needing validation. Mm-hmm.
1:57
And what should've been, like, an exploratory journey to figure out who Ashley was turned into, like, being a mouthpiece for other people. And so now I'm kind of, like, redoing that. [laughs] Yeah.
2:08
I'm 27 and going back to do what I wanted to do, and find myself, and go to law school, and finish school. Like, that's been really healing in a way I didn't expect, to go back to school.
2:20
And I was able to go back to the university that I was at, that I dropped out of, and so connect with those old professors who said, you know, "We always kind of knew you'd be back."
2:30
To talk to people who knew the way I thought when I was 18, before, like, all of this happened, that's been really healing, to be like, okay, like, there's people who know
2:40
I was a part of harm and I was a part of this cult, but that, that wasn't who I was at my core. Mm-hmm. And to have that sense of self back was really, really healing. So your, your entry point was Turning Point USA?
2:54
Yeah. Or was it something- Well, so it was Young Americans for Liberty, and then, like, very quickly, Turning Point USA. Yeah. A month before I start my freshman year of college, Donald Trump speaks on my campus.
3:04
We have to help our country. It is under siege in so many ways. By the way, you could almost say especially from the dishonest media, that's for sure.
3:15
So, like, when you look at my photos, it's just, like, me front row at Donald Trump's rally, and then starting college.
3:21
So it was like, that was the beginning of my college experience, was this MAGA-ism and all of this energy, and wow, it's, like, contrarian and- Yeah... and things like that. So it was f- right away.
3:37
What was your environment like? Was this influenced by maybe parents or family or community? No, I think part of it was that I was homeschooled in high school. Mm-hmm.
3:46
So I was, like, very sheltered in that regard, and it was more so the social aspect.
3:53
Because when, you know, for, like, a year and a half during my high school days, we were in a little town in Montana that had, like, 250 people. Really little.
4:01
My only friend was a Mennonite lumberjack girl, [laughs] like, the most original sentence ever. And so then I go to college- [laughs]...
4:07
and it's like, because I'm on this, like, nerdier side, like, I found the community and the political side of things. Mm-hmm.
4:14
Um, so I, I think that's, that contributed to it a lot, because I needed that social validation that I didn't get. I didn't get those, like, high school milestone events that I had had.
4:27
And being, like, a girl in these- Yeah... political chapters, it's like you get infinite attention and validation, 'cause you're one of the only ones there. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that was also formative.
4:38
I remember being 16 not that long ago, around the same time, or 17, 18, 19. Yeah. And, um, it's a very unique experience, I think, that womanhood brings, where
4:49
there's a, it, you almost, the line is sort of blurred between v- um, independence, and finding yourself, and, like, gaining confidence, and still seeking male validation without really knowing it.
5:02
I n- I needed it so bad, and I, [laughs] I joked about, like, my, uh, appearance with Hasan. Like, you can see me go back to that pick me behavior, where I'm like, "Tee hee hee."
5:12
Like, I just, for whatever reason, and I'm always like, "Sorry, Dad, I don't know why," because I had a good relationship [laughs] with my dad.
5:18
But I, like, very much was in that mindset of, like, needing male validation. You need to support the people who are supporting free speech.
5:25
You need to support the platforms that are supporting free speech, like X and Elon Musk, and we all need to be brave, because bad things happen when bra- when good men do nothing.
5:34
And I valued that so much more than female validation, for whatever reason. And that's been another thing that's been so nice, is to be not performing for the male gaze anymore. Right.
5:45
And to have, like, an audience of mostly women has been, like, really, really comforting to me, because I just never really had that. How much do you love Dogecoin? Dogecoin to the moon. To the moon, guys.
5:59
Do you feel that, um, you were treated different being a beautiful young woman in these political circles, especially on the right? Yeah.
6:06
Here's the thingI assume that because Ashley is a conservative, that she would not be offended because conservatives don't get offended at anything. That's true. I keep hearing that. I keep hearing that. Yeah. Yeah.
6:17
100%. I mean, outside of, like, the discrimination and the sexual harassment and the uncomfortable experiences I had with many men, it's also, like, you're given access to certain rooms just for being, you know, pretty.
6:32
And it really fucks with you to, like, see some of the things that you did and how openly that they do it. And they display this behavior because they don't think you're ever gonna say anything. Right.
6:43
They don't think you're gonna speak out. And I was very aware of, like, that gender dynamic pretty early on because of an experience I had with sexual assault in college.
6:55
And when I had that experience, it was very difficult to come forward about it. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you have people who don't believe you or you lose your friend circle.
7:04
Like, that's more traumatizing at times than the actual assault itself. Right. And then I'm in this circle, like, with MAGA, and to me, like, that experience of sexual assault and losing my entire friend circle,
7:18
to, to think about that happening again if I spoke out against MAGA, like, it was so traumatizing to even consider that, that it was just very difficult for me. Do you... Did that keep you in longer than you think?
7:32
I think it did, and it's kinda like the aspect that I haven't addressed fully about, like, me going into MAGA. But I was, like, so broken. Mm-hmm.
7:42
Like, I needed some sort of validation or community and, and then you're in it, and you're scared to speak up. And your entire life, like, your finances, your social circles, everything is entwined in this cult. Yeah.
7:55
And they cut off your access to information. Like, everything's fake news. Mm-hmm. Don't trust your professors. Report them [laughs] to Charlie Kirk. And so it, it's really difficult.
8:04
It's not just like, you know, stand up to tyranny. Everyone should, but there... You cannot simultaneously say that these people are dangerous, murderous tyrants and then ask why people don't leave sooner. Right.
8:17
Because they are scary individuals. Like, this is no joke. The, the things that are happening to my family and other people who dare to speak out- Mm... like, this is very real. These, I believe 100%.
8:31
Look what they did to people like Alex Preddy and other people who spoke out. 'Cause that's what they did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What kind of steps are you taking right now to protect your family? A lot. But I also want [sighs]
8:48
my kids to know that [sighs] the mortality rate is 100%. Like, you have to make your life worth living. Mm-hmm.
8:58
And you should never trade being materially comfortable for doing the right thing, and I think that's really important. And at the same time,
9:07
there's kind of this inverse reaction now, where there's so many eyeballs on me, it would be very hard [laughs] for them to do something.
9:14
Um, though they're still, you know, trying to harass and intimidate my family, but... Right. When you first joined this ecosystem, what were you looking for emotionally? I think it was just belonging and to feel like...
9:27
When they're putting you on the influencer graphics, and they're calling you, like, super special. Mm-hmm. You're the little special snowflake.
9:33
And you have, like, these men who are in power, like Charlie Kirk or Don Jr., saying, like, "You're doing great work, patriot," and that. And then you have the social media aspect, where you're gaining this following.
9:46
And you have these people who have, like, this, this feedback loop- Yeah... that reinforces the negative behavior. And you're ignoring all of the criticism. I think that's really harmful. Yeah.
9:57
But lots of people go down [laughs] that path, like left and right. Don Jr., Charlie Kirk, of course... I actually didn't, I don't think I realized that he was as, um, influential as he was until...
10:08
I know that I'm, like, knee-deep in, like, the crevices of the internet. [laughs] Like, I didn't realize that. He built one of the first apparatuses that gave young people, like, this sense of belonging.
10:19
And Turning Point really didn't even have to pay these influencers. Mm.
10:23
They made them feel like micro celebrities by having them be special guests at these events, like turning them into Turning Point influencers, having these big events where you can party and have friends and do all this.
10:36
Um, so he was really, really influential in, uh, gluing the influencer MAGA world together. Mm-hmm.
10:43
Do you think that people misunderstand how powerful power and proximity to it can be when critically thinking, making decisions? Yes.
10:53
It's very easy for people to give advice, like, from the outside when they have not experienced the brutality of certain people, um, and certain facets of power. I think it's very easy for people to
11:10
make suggestions based on what they're observing from the outside- Mm-hmm... uh, and not really understanding, like, the intricacies of the apparatus and how much is on the line when people do speak out.
11:21
I ex- I'm not expecting forgiveness or, or whatever that is, and I know it's gonna take time for people to trust me. Mm-hmm. But
11:30
just understand that I'm one of the only people that can speak out because how this operates, and this is just with people [laughs] at the top of capital, is NDAs. Mm-hmm. A lot of these people have NDAs.
11:42
They cannot speak out legally because what the wealthy capitalists have done is they've made a privatized legal system where everyone is, uh, has no meaningful consent on these NDAs.
11:54
And they sign these, whether it's for a job, to feed their family, for housing, to get in a room, and then they can't speak out. Mm-hmm. Or they risk, you know, the death of a thousand suns through these legal teams.
12:07
I didn't even sign an NDA, and I'm still dealing with that. Right. I'm being sued by a trillion-dollar company right [laughs] now for speaking out against what happened to me.
12:15
And so people just need to understand that-More people want to speak out, but unless there's really systemic changes to the privatized legal systems that these individuals have created, that's gonna be really, really difficult for them.
12:31
Yeah. As for Elon Musk, when he first reached out to you, what, what was that moment? How did that feel?
12:37
I was so pick me and, like, in the MAGA world that at that time, Elon was seen as, like, this warrior of free speech. Mm. He's fixing the issues with typical big tech. Right.
12:48
And before, there was so much censorship, and he's this warrior of free speech who says he's gonna, you know, make this an honest platform. And so I was stoked. I was like, "Oh, my God. I've been chosen." So it...
13:01
like, in that moment, it... he was, like, the leader, the up-and-coming leader of MAGA. Mm-hmm. Like, in everyone's mind, so it was like, "Whoa." Yeah.
13:11
He represented something much more than even being one of the richest men in the world.
13:16
Yeah, because at, at, at that time, you know, there was so much discussion about Cambridge Analytica, censorship on social media, big tech accountability.
13:24
And then at that time, to have someone who's perceived as coming up and breaking things, you know, and just being like, "We're gonna go against the status quo"- Right...
13:32
even though he ended up being the status quo, um, and, and arguably worse than these other t- uh, big tech leaders, that was, like, captivating and intoxicating. Mm-hmm.
13:44
You're like, "Wow, someone's, like, going against the system." Yeah. And that's how I genuinely thought about it in that moment.
13:51
How do you, or what do you think about the way that people frame or react to your history with Elon Musk? That's fine.
13:59
I think people, like, genuinely just get a little too personal without realizing that, like, we're also... I'm in three different courts with this guy. Like, there's just certain things I can't say. Yeah.
14:09
And they'll read into me not saying things. But I do have to protect my kids and my family, like, as much as I can.
14:17
Um, and people are, like, oddly obsessed with asking about his penis, and then when I don't [laughs] answer- God... they're like, "Oh, she's... It was IVF. It was this."
14:24
[laughs] It's like, no, I just am not particularly inclined to talk about my sex life. Like, what if my kids- Right... are gonna watch this, you know? Like, I've mentioned things here and there, but, you know.
14:35
So that's [sighs] a little whatever, but I, I get it still. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I noticed that... I watched your stream with Hasan. There were- I was... I don't know what happened to me. Like, my brain fell out of my head.
14:48
I was like, "Tee hee hee." [laughs] Well, that, that is something that, um, [laughs] wouldn't put it exactly in that way, but something that I, that I did take note of a bit is that there were moments where he...
15:00
I mean, you have this grand story that is such a unique perspective, and one that is, um, to many people, very important right now from multiple different perspectives.
15:09
There were moments where very quickly you were objectified and sexualized a little bit. No. Um, he fucking tweets about me all the time, which at first it was like- Same. It wa- [laughs] At first, it...
15:21
Well, for you, it makes sense. You guys, you know, he... You guys had sex, so... Did you not? Wait. Is that not... Wait. I jokingly said he mailed his cum in a napkin. Don't say that. That is so gross.
15:36
But, like, what- Hasan. Okay. Well- Where's the spray bottle? Tsh. [laughs] Okay. I apologize. So your... [laughs] Is your mother watching this? So he didn't, he didn't mail- Don't, don't. He didn't mail it? No. Okay.
15:50
There was no mailing, Hasan. Okay. It... So- [laughs] You're... That's really gross. Anyway. Well, the point I, the point I was making- And you laughed through it, and you were a good sport. I do wonder, though.
16:00
I feel that many women know that instinct- Yeah... to laugh through moments like that. Um, do you think that maybe throughout the last decade or so, you have seen yourself turn to appealing- Yeah...
16:14
to the room, not causing a commotion? Yeah. Yes, and I have, like, a tendency to cope through humor, too. Mm-hmm.
16:21
So I'll laugh, or I'll make a joke out of it, and I've just always coped through a lot of things with humor and joking and, like, kind of making myself a bit smaller in the moment.
16:32
So he slides into my DMs, and he's like, "Are you ever in San Francisco or Austin?" I'm like, "I'm in Austin a lot, but I'm supposed to be in San Francisco whenever you get back to Seth about an interview date."
16:43
Within, like, 30 seconds, Seth calls me. He's like, "Elon just got back." Oh, my God. "We're going to San Francisco on Thursday." You... He wanted to fuck you, so you, you, you leverage that to get a fucking- No...
16:53
interview for Babylon Bee? I was a Babylon Bee employee first, okay? That's- I was a Babylon Bee em- employee first, so I was like, "Let me do a solid for Seth here." That's crazy. And, uh...
17:05
Um, and I have been working through that, but at the same time, I think the most important conversations are gonna happen with women. Mm-hmm. I really do.
17:14
There was a text that Elon had sent me at one time, and he said, "Never in human history has there been a successful army composed of women." And I think about that all the time. Mm.
17:25
Hasan's stream was fun, and it's funny, and it is what it is. Um, but I think the genuine change is gonna come from us. Yeah. Why is that? None of this would be able to occur if women stopped keeping the secrets of men.
17:37
Mm-hmm. And I genuinely believe that, like, especially when I was at places like Mar-a-Lago. Mm-hmm.
17:43
And I'm watching these women who are just, like, extracting what they can from the men without any regard to the other actions of the men. Like, are they pl- paying their employees enough?
17:54
Like [laughs] are their employees- Mm-hmm... unionized? This and that.
17:57
And the things that they see and they witness that have the power to take this entire thing down, um, I think more women need to speak up and stop keeping secrets for men, any men.
18:10
Have you heard from women at Mar-a-Lago and these places? I have. There's, there's people who are on Fox. There's, uh, former Turning Point staffers. There's a lot of women within that movement who areThey're angry. Mm.
18:25
They're very angry. Behind the scenes. Yes. What are the social and emotional risks when deciding whether or not to jump ship? It's...
18:39
That's always hard for me to talk about because I've become so jaded by it from being on the internet for so long. I'm like, "Ugh, whatever. Like, a news cycle dies in 24 hours anyways."
18:48
I remember the first time, like, I got canceled or was in a controversy, and you get hate, and it feels like your world is ending.
18:55
So, like, for the average person, it is really catastrophic for them to have their identity attacked like that. But I hope they understand, like, that storm will pass.
19:07
Just, just keep pushing and keep going, and I know what feels, like, so impossible in the moment and heavy, like, it'll pass, and you'll get through it. But do the right thing.
19:18
Why do you think people find themselves in, in this ecosystem? What, what, what's the hook? I think they prey on very vulnerable individuals.
19:27
I think there's a lot of manipulation going on to bring these people in, and I also think it's part of the algorithms. Like, the algorithms are maximizing for user seconds. Mm-hmm.
19:38
And I, I don't think people put enough thought into, well, what are they doing to maximize my user seconds? Are they, and they are, targeting me based on what's going to trigger me emotionally- Mm...
19:50
or get a response out of me. And I think people really, because I saw it up close and personal, need to recognize how much, like, their consciousness is being bastardized and exploited by these people.
20:02
Like, it is extraction of your thoughts and your soul that they are using to profit at these big tech companies. And so try to take a break. Try to go only to the following feed.
20:13
Um, don't use their discovery algorithms, and read. Like, read books cover to cover.
20:18
And I say this, and it sounds so simple, but to read thoughts in their entirety, at least for me, was really helpful instead of, like, this junk food information that we've been taught to consume on social media I think has been so damaging, like, ontologically for, like, what it means to be humans that- Mm-hmm...
20:37
I hope there's some way out of it, and that people learn to... And I'm, I'm optimistic about it because there's been such backlash from the younger generations on AI and the data centers. Yeah.
20:47
But they have to push back. It's a very- But now the FBI, I don't know if you just saw, they're targeting people who protest the data centers. Right. And so people need to get louder. Yeah. Because I don't...
21:02
If I seem neurotic, it's because I am, uh, because what I saw, and I am very scared that once they accomplish this with this integration of AI into all of our lives, that it is going to be very hard to take that power back.
21:16
This is not... If you think power was hard to take back in the last, like, 50 years, we're done. So people need to fight back and fight back loudly.
21:25
And the more I have been thinking about it, it's been more of a newer thought, but I, I truly believe they encourage so many people to have kids so that they're less likely to fight back.
21:36
'Cause they know that is the only thing that will stop women from fighting back, is their kids. That's really interesting.
21:43
The childfree, I, I've come to a different understanding, that they have more power than anybody else to, to fight back- Mm... and to make that risk.
21:53
And I think there was an essay, someone commented in my comments, the childfree are ungovernable, and people need to take that into account and fight back. What was it like when you first started reading?
22:04
Do you remem- Was it, was it a sudden, um, unlearning of things and realizing that things are wrong, or were you kind of faking it for a while anyway?
22:12
So I always read, but then it was once I started reading the things I wasn't supposed to, like Black literature, and it was very hard for me. It, like, kind of broke my brain.
22:23
[laughs] Like, I went back to school, and I took a class on Hegel, Marx, and race. I was like, "This sounds exactly like I wasn't supposed to [laughs] you know- Right... take before." It's a banned book. Yes.
22:32
And, you know, the making of the modern Middle East, and I'm Jewish, so to read that, and I, I hadn't had any exposure to these things before.
22:40
And to read that, it was very hard for me to read those experiences and that history and not feel, like, immense guilt for the way that I had been tr- been portraying it or, like, the empathy that I didn't have towards it or that I thought it was just this anti-white stuff.
22:57
Mm-hmm. And it, it wasn't. If anything, it's anti-capitalist. And so, so that was, like, really... That, like, broke my brain. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. Do you... I...
23:10
This is the question I feel that most people ask towards the end of every, whether it's Jonestown or [laughs] whatever it may be. Yeah. Dictatorships, they fall.
23:20
How many of them do you think right now in the, in the right-wing media ecosystem buy what they're saying? I don't think a lot of them do, but I think they are so devoted to the attention- Mm-hmm...
23:36
and the status and their devotion to class that they will not leave. Like, at least in the MAGA. When I talk about MAGA, I'm talking about, like, the influencer class of it all- Mm-hmm... um, and the upper echelons.
23:51
I, I, I don't know that they're gonna leave. A lot of people in the current administration were previously the influencer sphere. Steven Miller, you previously had known before he was in the White House. Kash Patel.
24:08
I didn't know Kash that well. I just had a photo, like- Caroline Levit- But I... [laughs] Yeah. They planned it out to get to where they are.
24:19
Like, they had very intentional goals of, like, getting close to power, and they accomplished that. Mm. They wanted to be someone. They wanted to be on TV. They wanted to do all that. Like, that's...
24:29
exactly what they're doing. Was there es- any moment, any single moment where you realized that the movement maybe didn't value you? Oh, there were many moments. Like, it was just,
24:42
especially, like, the reaction to me as a woman or any time I would speak out or, or stray away from, like, the traditional talking points. Trump era. Yeah.
24:52
And my biggest qualm with them is they will shoot down all the arguments from, like, AOC, just because she's a socialist or whatever- Right...
25:00
whatever it is, about free education or this or that, but they're not addressing the issues that are making people aged 18 to 35 so discontent and wanna be socialist. There you go.
25:10
They're not, they're not saying, like, "This idea sucks. Here's a conservative way to achieve it. Here's a conservative solution." Exactly, yeah. You'd rather have a dead child than an autistic one?
25:17
Like, that's so fucking- Well, yeah. Like- I think it doesn't do well for him being president. I don't think he's passed much good legislation. Yeah. He really hasn't done anything. We haven't gotten far- Yeah...
25:26
on progress at all. What about free speech on campus? Right away it was like, whore, Jew, grifter.
25:31
[laughs] Like, all of this stuff, like, right away, the visceral reaction they would have any time I was a bad girl, um, I saw that quite often, and I didn't say anything, but I didn't ignore it either.
25:44
And I saw what they did to other women, too. What was that? Just the harassment, the abuse, the way they spoke about them, their refusal to hold men accountable.
25:55
Um, particular- like, people like Steven Crowder was on video- Mm-hmm... like, abusing his wife- Yes... and screaming at her, and then it was her who was attacked. And by the way, through the grapevine,
26:09
apparently Steven Crowder is dating his illegal immigrant nanny while he talks about immigration all day, and has replaced all the photos in their house of his children's mother with this nanny.
26:21
My God, where, where did you hear this? Through sources close to the matter. They're all so broken. They have no sense of identity, and they're all coping in different ways.
26:33
And, like, that is what really started to bug me about the trans issue, is that they're, like, making fun of these people and, and saying, this disadvantaged community- Mm-hmm...
26:42
who's, like, less than 1% of the population, and like, "Ooh, ha ha, they don't have a sense of identity." None of those people do. Right. Like, what are you talking about? You have no sense of self.
26:52
Your entire sense of self is MAGA and, like, dick-sucking Trump. Mm-hmm. And, and so that to me, I was like, this is just so cruel, and they were doing it just to be cruel and to punch down.
27:06
And I have, like, a little bit of a mean girl streak, but I like to punch up. Like, punch up, you know? [laughs] And, but they convince you that it's part of a larger movement, and it's like trans Antifa- Mm...
27:18
and it's like this big, bad boogeyman. And then when you actually, you know, s- take the time to do the work, you're like, this is a non-issue. Right. Like, they are hyper-fixating on non-issues here.
27:31
I, I can assure you, you're not unsafe and you can't not afford groceries because trans people and immigrants. Mm-hmm. Um, it's because your president and the capitalist class is fucking you.
27:40
How old were you and how old was Elon Musk when you first started- I was-... getting together?... 23, 24, and he was in his 50s.
27:51
People have been accusing you of baby trapping him for a multitude- I don't know how you baby trap a man with a harem, but like [laughs] like... But no. And it really bothers me because he pushed some of that, too.
28:04
Mm-hmm. Like, in the beginning. And to push this false notion that it was in any way a baby trap and, like, make it like my son was just some pawn in a gold digging scheme- Mm-hmm... is so disgusting.
28:17
Like, that's your only public acknowledgement? And if it w- [laughs] if it was a baby trap for money, why did I turn down $40 million? Why did you? Because it would have been...
28:29
I didn't think it was the right thing to do for a, a broader picture and for my children. This would have been an NDA, like, into eternity. Right. And I could not do that.
28:41
I told them, "I cannot in good conscience sign this," and [laughs] I, I still have the messages where I said, "I'd rather live in a studio apartment with both of my kids than, than do this."
28:50
What is the deal with the compound in Texas? No idea. Did that ever come to fruition or? I have no idea. Yeah. Really, I'm not there. You'd have to ask him. [laughs] I'm in New York City, so [laughs]
29:00
No, I'm in a place where they have rights for women, so. Right. And you know, there's, there's a lot of people who are like, "Oh, you know, she's only doing this 'cause MAGA got rid of her."
29:09
I think I've proved that I know MAGA pretty well, okay? Mm-hmm. I knew what the reaction was gonna be when I went public, and I was ready to do that.
29:17
I, I didn't think I was ever going to be some right-wing influencer after I publicly took a stand, like- Right... for my kids. I was fully aware of that. Um,
29:29
I'm the type of person, like, in a relationship when I'm out, like I've already moved on in the relationship, you know? So I- Yeah... was just ready to not be a part of that.
29:38
Like, at that point, seeing everything I did with Elon, I was like, I don't want... Like, okay, so it goes to the top, too. At the very top, this all sucks. Like, you all are just exploiting people.
29:49
There's something, like, deeply ontologically evil about this whole thing. I want no part of it. If you could go back to 23 and talk to Ashley then before things took a turn, um, what, what would you say?
30:04
Maybe don't do the New York Post spread. [laughs] Right? Any New York Post spread. No. But it was, like, so sad that...
30:14
Because you know, I, I'd come out with this and, and then Elon immediately starts, like, tweeting this crazy shit, like, saying I'm some gold digger, all this crazy stuff, and I'm, like, crying.
30:25
I'm like, "I guess I'll talk to New York Post," and [laughs] you know? Yeah. Like, uh, I wish I would not have done that one, but, um, besides thatJust, uh, it'll, it'll get better And you're close with your parents.
30:38
Yeah. Yeah. Have they been with you through this? Yes. My, I talk to my mom every day. She's [laughs] she's like my rock. My dad's been great, and, and I have, like, my siblings. I- Yeah... I have a very, my friends.
30:50
Like, I am very thankful to have such a good support system- Mm-hmm... and, like, people who have known me before all of this. Have they been along for the ride- Yeah... or did you have certain social- Yeah...
31:00
dynamics shift around? No, they've been a- around for the r- ride. Like, obviously a lot of the MAGA friends I had, like,
31:08
we don't talk too much, but then every now and then, I will get a text or a call from a very unexpected person in MAGA who's like, "Keep going." Hmm.
31:16
And so, so they're watching it too, and I think that's what people need to understand is, okay, the left is watching me, but so is all of MAGA. And sometimes that's who I'm speaking to. What do you wanna say to them?
31:30
Get out. And then what? Deal with the consequences [laughs] of your actions. Change. Like, grow.
31:38
Life is too short to have your entire persona be MAGA and be a part of something that is so detrimental, like, to all of humanity and the country, and just recognize the cruelty that you have ignored to other people, 'cause it's gonna come for you, too.
31:53
What does accountability look like to you, for yourself and then for other people? I think it depends on, like, what the harm is.
31:59
Like, for me, I'm really, um, focused on addressing and trying to give a voice to the people that I harmed directly.
32:06
So I just put a call out 'cause I wanna talk to some POC and trans influencers and have their stories put out there. Um, and then I want to try to figure out the best way to do, like, financial restitutions- Mm-hmm...
32:18
and maybe, like, some fundraising events for those communities. And then for other people, it depends on what your contribution was. Um, and, and that looks different for everyone. Mm-hmm.
32:28
Even someone who was a combat vet or a sniper, like, your restitution should be discouraging young men from joining the military and being a part of this.
32:37
If you harmed a s- particular community, like, that's who you need to focus on learning more about and listening to the voices from that community because, again, I was so anti-BLM, and then I felt so disgusting, like, finally reading Black literature and being like, "This,
32:55
w- what have I been a part of? Like, what did I do? What did I promote?" And so I think it's really about, like, listening to the people that you were, you had the most visceral reaction to. Mm-hmm.
33:05
And I, I think that's part of it, and then working on, get feedback on, like, what's the best way to make amends to that community. Don't just come up with it in your own head.
33:14
Like, get feedback and say, like, "I'm not sure what the best way is, and I'd like feedback from the people that I hurt on, on what the best way to make amends is."
33:24
What do you say to the people that essentially say they don't trust you now? That's okay. Yeah, I understand. Like, there's... I've had that experience too.
33:33
Like, um, you know, going back to the sexual assault that I had in college and I lost so many of their, those friends, some of those people have reached back out to me and said, "You know, I'm so sorry for, for that and w- what I put you through or what we put you through."
33:47
And, like, there's still hurt. I'm like, "You know, that's nice, but, like, I don't forgive you." Mm-hmm. But, and so, like, I get it. Like, that's a normal reaction.
33:56
I don't think they're out of line to, to not trust me right now. That's okay. What happened in college? The, when I had a sexual assault by a close friend, and then coming out was, like, very difficult.
34:09
Like, I lost that circle of friends. How do you think that what you took from that experience showed up in your political activism?
34:18
Well, it was a year later that I was wearing a shirt that said, "Gun rights are women's rights." Mm-hmm. So [laughs] I think that was part of it. But it also made me, like, more fearful to speak out publicly.
34:29
And, like, when I saw things in MAGA, like, I would try to speak out, like, behind the scenes and say, like, "Hey, we gotta fix this." And, like, I'm like, you know, maybe speaking out publicly is the wrong thing.
34:39
And, like, you really second-guess yourself when you speak out against, like, any abuse of power or dynamics like that. So I, I think it did a- impact me more than I cared to admit- Mm-hmm... for, like, a long time.
34:53
So yeah. Are you, are you seeing any therapists or- Yes. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Times. Yes. Um, so I have a therapist, like a talk counselor, so we just do, like, talk therapy.
35:06
Um, and then I see a psychiatrist because the Lexapro helps immensely. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, again, I was someone who was like, "SSRIs are bad, and they make people crazy." Mm-hmm.
35:16
"And therapy's ruining the country." And it's, it's been the most impactful and helpful for me. Mm-hmm. And, like, now I'm doing things that I discourage people from doing, and, and that, for me, um, bothers me.
35:31
Like, who didn't and isn't getting help because I was like, "This is, this is bad." [laughs] Mm-hmm. Was, was there a single moment that made you realize that,
35:42
I, I imagine it would be a bizarre, a bizarre experience or realization, but that who you were publicly was no longer who you were personally?
35:50
I had m- many moments like that, like, especially when there were things that I was being pushed to, like, say about different topics. Like, I remember too, like, during COVID, at first, I was like, "Stay the fuck home.
36:03
Like, this is a big deal." I'm g- I'm not gonna mask at all. I really think everyone needs to reject this absurdity entirely. Don't wear a mask. Look, you might not be able to go to your favorite restaurant.
36:12
You might have to drive instead of fly. But do-not comply. Stop complying with this. This is wrong And then I had a very prominent MAGA influencer who was like, "Don't be CNN. Like, what are you doing?"
36:21
And they did the same thing to me with George Floyd- Mm-hmm... which I really just, like, stayed away from commenting too much because when it first happened, I was like, "This is awful." going right now.
36:30
You guys are supposedly protesting for George Floyd, but nobody is, is helping his, his brother and his family to denounce this violence because the original message is being so diluted by what's going on.
36:42
So if you actually want change, why don't you do something? Why don't you actually listen to the issues instead of being a sheep and just posting this stupid black box?
36:49
By burning down your own businesses, by taking away what so many Black Americans have worked so hard to achieve.
36:56
And there were moments where, like, my gut instinct was, in retrospect, the right one, and then I would have these very prominent MAGA figures, like, almost like handlers who would be like- Mm-hmm...
37:08
"No," like, "Read the autopsy report. Do this, do that." And I'm like, "Am I, like... Am I the one who's, like, not right?" And by the way, this is just a broader point.
37:18
Our whole country blew up because of this incident, and it was largely based on a lie. But the knee on the neck is actually an approved police technique that police departments taught Derek Chauvin to use.
37:27
You really second-guessed your judgment, but there were many, many moments like that.
37:31
If you could speak to any teenagers that are in the same place that you were when you were clearly most vulnerable, um, what, what would you say to them? You need to have friends that are not political. [laughs] Mm-hmm.
37:42
You need to have some friends that are not political who can ground you no matter what you do, and, and listen to them. Like, I had those friends, and I wish I would've listened to them more. And
37:55
just be very aware of how much they need you. Like, you don't need them. They need you. They need to use you. They want to use you. These people who are, like, uber capitalist, their goal is to extract.
38:07
Their goal is not to help you. These are people who don't believe in restorative justice. They don't believe in therapy. They don't believe in healthcare. They don't believe in housing.
38:14
They think anyone who wants these things wants handouts. They don't want to help you. [laughs] Right.
38:20
They are completely self-serving, and while they may pat you on the back and say you're doing a good job, it's all self-serving. Y- the job that you're doing is to help them. Mm-hmm.
38:31
And i- it's not because they know or care any- about anything about you. Um, so talk about you. Talk about your experiences.
38:40
I think people are gonna be the most useful when they talk about their own life and what it means to be human and the things that keep them up at night and their regrets and how they can
38:50
de-influence people from making the same bad decisions that they did. I think people need to be more open about their own bad decisions in, in a way that, you know, who cares if people say anything?
39:01
Like, we all made mistakes, but, like, try to de-influence others from making the same mistakes as you, um, and, and feeding, like, an honest version of y- yourself and humanity into- Yeah... the world.
Briefings
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